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Lancement de 2 blogs en Allemagne
Bienvenue à Achim et Achim. Achim Gounar et Achim Durschmid, 2 passionés de voitures aussi bien récentes qu'anciennes ont rejoint les rangs de nos contributeurs et nous permettent de lancer Der Auto Blog et Der Vintage Blog, les cousines teutonnes du Blog Auto et du Blog Vintage.
Bienvenue!
Par David Koskas le 16 février 2005
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(18) Commentaires | Permalink
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Commentaires
Rédigé par : Mike Schnoor | 18 fév 2005 12:47:06
Dear author,
just a smaller note on the naming. Actually, the correct form of naming a blog with an article is "Das Blog" (neutrum) and not "Der Blog" (maskulinum). Sadly, the authors of the mentioned blogs made this mistake... :(
Best regards,
Mike Schnoor
Rédigé par : Christoph | 18 fév 2005 17:32:53
Mike,
being German, I'd say that it is Der Blog. Das Blog is OK as well, since Blog is not a defined word in the german dictionnary Duden. To me Der Blog sounds better in German, specially with masculine subjects like cars and bikes.
Rédigé par : Gab | 18 fév 2005 17:55:25
Hi all !
I have a question though. I thought german words that come from foreign languages were automatically neutrum ?Am I wrong ?
Regards,
Gab
Rédigé par : Mike Schnoor | 18 fév 2005 21:37:37
Dear Christoph & Gab,
I understand your point, Christoph, but Gab is very correct about foreign language words. Usually, the neutrum is assigned to a word.
In any case, keep in mind that "Blog" is based on "Weblog". Let's focus on the word itself. As we all know, it's German word "Weblog" is based on "das Web" and "das Log" ("das Logbuch") -- if you simplify the language to the roots. Nevertheless, the diary is "das Tagebuch", and if you consider these words web, log and its combined meaning of an online diary as basic principle for creating the predestined articles in masculine, feminine or neutrum cases, you are already limited to the neutrum gender.
Best regards,
Mike Schnoor
Rédigé par : Christoph | 18 fév 2005 23:13:04
Mike,
I understand your reasonning. Since it is "das Logbuch", it could well be "das Blog", but then it would also be wrong, since it would be pronounced "blowg" in German. You would need to spell it "blogg" to pronounce it as in english. So OK, you can call it "das blogg". I still stick to calling it "der blog", for two reasons :
1. the renowed news magazine der Spiegel called it "ein blog" in one of its recent articles about the phenomenon.
2. It just sounds better in german language to german ears, when you say "der blog"
Rédigé par : Nicole Simon | 18 fév 2005 23:55:18
Yes of course it did say "ein Blog", because it is "das Blog". If it would be "der Blog" it would be "einen".
Das Mädchen. Ich habe ein Mädchen gesehen.
Der Baum. Ich habe einen Baum gesehen.
And why the hell should it be pronounced blowg?!
Plus: It sounds like fingernails on a chark board to hear 'der Blog'.
Rédigé par : Mike Schnoor | 19 fév 2005 10:12:15
Dear Christoph,
the word "Blog" in german is an anglicism, which is a transition from an originally english word into german language. Anglicisms are one-to-one identical transitions and translations of a word into german. To recall this - "Service-Provider", "Recycling", "Talk", "Team", "Party" are some more common anglicisms in the german language. You would never dare to write i.e. "Riesaickling" instead of "Recycling", "Tiem" instead of "Team", or "Paartie" instead of "Party". If this would be the case, you had to reform "Blog" into "Block" (which is already the word for "block") or "Blogg" (which is no anglicism anymore). The word "blowg" makes no sense to me due to the anglicism of "Blog" - and it rather reminds me of the voice-sounds created by sheep. If ever, a "blohg" to stress a longer o-sound is acceptable - but its no anglicism anymore.
Dear Nicole,
you're absolutely correct. The "unbestimmter Article" of the word Blog is hinting at it's neutrum gender. However, you argued with the accusative clause to express "einen", but its reasonable enough. ;)
I like this small discussion.
Best regards,
Mike
Rédigé par : Christophe Labedan | 19 fév 2005 13:55:29
I must say I can't contribute much being french with hardly any German skills but this a fascinating conversation; in french blog is masculine, god knows why... neutral also exists in English, a dog is a 'it' which never stopped anyone from calling them a 'he' or a 'she'... There is a funny article on auto Muse called "Blog is Masculine" after we launched der autoblog and le blog auto... http://www.vehicleinfo.com/AutoMuse/archives/2005/02/blog_is_masculi.html#comments
it doesn't really give us an answer but some of you could contribute to the debate there as well, until we know for sure ( and damn we have to buy another domain name).
I would say one thing though, this is the beauty of blogs, getting so many people to contribute to the debate, bringing their experience and expertise.
Now I'm not saying that these are right either, but can you check them out, there is a fair amount of "der blog" in there :) and the list is endless
http://www.stangl-taller.at/ARBEITSBLAETTER/blog/default.shtml
http://blog.promagna.com/
http://www.voltaplatz.ch/blog/
http://blog.escapenet.ch/
http://www.myblog.de/anili
http://www.maennerseiten.de/blog/
http://www.jazznrhythm.de/blog/pivot/entry.php?id=85
http://www.blogall.de/blogall/
Regards
Christophe
The Social Media Group
Rédigé par : Christoph | 19 fév 2005 15:58:54
Nicole, Mike,
ich denke wir führen diese sehr interessante Diskussion besser auf deutsch fort. Meiner Meinung nach kann mann beides sagen. Der Blog klingt einfach besser. Ihr könnt natürlich auch das Weblogbuch sagen.
Nicole,
dein Vergleich mit dem Baum und dem Mädchen hinkt. Das hat nichts mit dem Geschlecht derjeniger zu tun, sodern in dem Fall einfach wie der Akusativ lautet.
Also, für unsere Publikationen haben wir DER BLOG gewählt. Seht es eher als einen Markennamen, wie "Die Mass" beim Oktoberfest.
Auf jeden fall bin ich gespannt wie es demnächst im Duden steht.
Rédigé par : Achim | 19 fév 2005 17:25:45
Hi,
Schaut mal bei
http://cfe.twoday.net/stories/436560/#comments
nach: Zitat "[..]Ein kleines googlevoting ergab hingegen ein 5:1 für "der blog". Und wieder einmal beugt sich das Gefühl vor dem Pöbel..."
Vielleicht besteht ja noch eine Chance für "vintageblog.de"? Dann wär es immerhin egal, und man könnte mit seinem blog-Mädchen genauso wie mit seinem blog-Jungen..oder blog-Dings ..äh. rumspielen (verzeiht die Wortwahl)
:-)
Gruß,
Achim
Rédigé par : Christophe Labedan | 19 fév 2005 17:42:41
This is becoming a "Germany intra muros" debate... Can anyone translate or can we keep comments in English for all to contribute? It sounds like we are moving foward but I'm not sure in which direction :) sorry for being so ignorant, but I am limited to French and English...
Rédigé par : Nicole Simon | 19 fév 2005 23:25:06
Christophe, probably one reason why Christoph would have liked to move it to German.
As Achim is stating, "a google voting said 5:1 for der blog" but that is nonsense - as you probably guess how it goes with statistics.
In your case (as marketing machine already is rolling on your corporate design etc) the only real chance to play on "derautoblog" is to make a strong bondage to the french blog (which is usually not something taken well by germans, at least not the ones I know which is of course limited).
As you are playing along with the strong bondage of the two French / German Blogs under a European point of view you have decided to make a special appearance on the market going for der Blog even though you of course where aware of the fact that in Germany most people use das Blog. bla bla something like this.
The fact, that you where not even aware of this problem is not very reassurring either. But at least you do have the other domains now - as german domains cost about 6 Euros a year, this is not really something costly.
Nicole
Rédigé par : Christophe Labedan | 20 fév 2005 01:43:53
Nicole,
I can assure you that you are reading too much into this. The reason why we did call it Der rather than Das is because we believe it is OK with Der and this was our first point of call. Never would we have imagined it could have created such a stir... The verdict is still out, there are a lot of German people we spoke to in the last 2 days that could not understand the argument and didn't feel that Der was inapropriate. I can't understand how you can find so many Der blog on the web if the mistake is so obvious, I don't think that all the other nationals that have used it are totally illiterate, are they?
Whether it is a question of personal taste, better sounding etc is another matter and I'm not personally able to comment.
Still, I'm happy to see the debate becoming a bit more constructive.
Rédigé par : Nicole Simon | 20 fév 2005 03:12:08
Christophe, I did not read something into it, it was a suggestion on how to put it. But from my point of view, this is through for your side; there would be no value to change it.
One reason why you have many hits on "der blog" is because you have combined words. Or do you really think 13.900 hits for "die blog" are out there because some people call it "die blog"?
btw: a search for both "der blog" "die blog" results in 1920 hits alone.
Rédigé par : Christophe Labedan | 20 fév 2005 11:08:11
I'm not really counting the Google results as I agree it wouldn't be right because of the combination of words. I am merely saying that there are plenty of weblogs using 'Der', I have listed a few above. My point is, if one can find so many, it could be that no one is really sure which one is best... and therefore the initial comments about us not knowing what we are doing were a little bit harsh, particularly when no one seem to know about us, i.e no track record of blatant amateurism, that's all. And if we feel that we made a mistake and Das is better, we will switch, there is no pride involved here, really.
Rédigé par : Roland Mueller | 20 fév 2005 21:52:16
It is definitely "das Blog" in German, guys! And it is totally irrelevant what the one or the other Google-search may tell You. Just change it. "Der Blog" will not only be grammatically incorrect but will raise a laugh in the German blogger's community ;-)
w/kind regs (Roland Mueller, professional German copywriter)
Rédigé par : Christophe Labedan | 21 fév 2005 12:58:47
These exchanges have been stimulating to say the least...!
No one likes to think they are doing something wrong particularly when one is passionate about what they are doing, but the last thing we want is to think that the name we chose could make readers feel uneasy about it, or that it sounds simply wrong.
At the end of the day, you have all been extremely helpful and quite convincing, so thank you for this, we have decided to switch from Der auto blog and der vintage blog to Das auto blog and das vintage blog.
Since you've all been so involved, we expect to receive lots of article suggestions from you all, tons of comments and an average of 10 page impressions per unique rader/day :)
Thanks again
Christophe
on behalf of the team at Social Media Group
Rédigé par : jason holloway | 4 mar 2005 13:41:17
Hey Christophe
Exciting topic "Bloggs"
Get in contact - Hope you are well
Jason
